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	<title>Comments on: Warhammer Online: Does RvR Need an Overhaul?</title>
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	<link>http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/</link>
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		<title>By: FrostFire</title>
		<link>http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/comment-page-1/#comment-34606</link>
		<dc:creator>FrostFire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 19:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/#comment-34606</guid>
		<description>Some observations from a lowly trial player (but WoW veteran).

1) (Bright Wizard) Rank 1-10 RvR is boring, repetitive, suffers from a serious lack of depth, does not reflect personal skill, and gives me the overwhelming impression that I&#039;m an overpowered cannon that spams Fiery Blast for hours on end (that is, until a single melee character attacks me, from which I have absolutely zero CC to defend myself with).

2) The best part of WAR, a &quot;PvP&quot; game, is in fact its PvE content. Public Quests are simply genius. Unfortunately, the shiny gear I work hard for in PQs is useless in the crap that is also known as RvR.

3) As much as I would like to see WoW dethroned, it is consistently better in almost every category, especially:
Intense, skillful, tactical 1v1 combat that MAKES LARGE SCALE PvP SO ENTERTAINING (Pay attention Mythic; a solid 1v1 game is the foundation for entertaining RvR.) 

Mythic needs to admit that its RvR philosophy is not only flawed, but BROKEN and needs to be overhauled if it is to survive in the MMO market for more than a year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some observations from a lowly trial player (but WoW veteran).</p>
<p>1) (Bright Wizard) Rank 1-10 RvR is boring, repetitive, suffers from a serious lack of depth, does not reflect personal skill, and gives me the overwhelming impression that I&#8217;m an overpowered cannon that spams Fiery Blast for hours on end (that is, until a single melee character attacks me, from which I have absolutely zero CC to defend myself with).</p>
<p>2) The best part of WAR, a &#8220;PvP&#8221; game, is in fact its PvE content. Public Quests are simply genius. Unfortunately, the shiny gear I work hard for in PQs is useless in the crap that is also known as RvR.</p>
<p>3) As much as I would like to see WoW dethroned, it is consistently better in almost every category, especially:<br />
Intense, skillful, tactical 1v1 combat that MAKES LARGE SCALE PvP SO ENTERTAINING (Pay attention Mythic; a solid 1v1 game is the foundation for entertaining RvR.) </p>
<p>Mythic needs to admit that its RvR philosophy is not only flawed, but BROKEN and needs to be overhauled if it is to survive in the MMO market for more than a year.</p>
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		<title>By: Thebloodbullet</title>
		<link>http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/comment-page-1/#comment-22396</link>
		<dc:creator>Thebloodbullet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 03:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/#comment-22396</guid>
		<description>i just(as im typing this) got warhammer and i read all the comments. Its a sad thing that they are having so many problems, but think..... They wanted to make an MMORPG that was VERY different from anything out there. Ive played them all.. I think they can fix this and it could be THE BEST MMO out there.and if you would just think for a minute.. WOW , BORING!!!!!!!! wow as in world of warcraft, its all quest, now i know must people love to kill 5 animals collect 10 items and kill a boss, but cmon.give them a chance i think they can do it its not as easy to make a GAME as people think. my point: every game went through this every game needs major work, bottom line they all improved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i just(as im typing this) got warhammer and i read all the comments. Its a sad thing that they are having so many problems, but think&#8230;.. They wanted to make an MMORPG that was VERY different from anything out there. Ive played them all.. I think they can fix this and it could be THE BEST MMO out there.and if you would just think for a minute.. WOW , BORING!!!!!!!! wow as in world of warcraft, its all quest, now i know must people love to kill 5 animals collect 10 items and kill a boss, but cmon.give them a chance i think they can do it its not as easy to make a GAME as people think. my point: every game went through this every game needs major work, bottom line they all improved.</p>
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		<title>By: MMORPG - MMOCrunch &#187; Stepping Away from Warhammer Online</title>
		<link>http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/comment-page-1/#comment-20354</link>
		<dc:creator>MMORPG - MMOCrunch &#187; Stepping Away from Warhammer Online</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Feb 2009 20:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/#comment-20354</guid>
		<description>[...] about 6 weeks ago and doing mostly RvR since, I&#8217;ve gotten a bit bored.  There are obvious problems with RvR currently and even though Mythic is taking steps to fix it, it&#8217;s just not worth it right now, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] about 6 weeks ago and doing mostly RvR since, I&#8217;ve gotten a bit bored.  There are obvious problems with RvR currently and even though Mythic is taking steps to fix it, it&#8217;s just not worth it right now, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: X-WARHAMMER PLAYER&#38;GUILD LEADER</title>
		<link>http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/comment-page-1/#comment-19642</link>
		<dc:creator>X-WARHAMMER PLAYER&#38;GUILD LEADER</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 19:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/#comment-19642</guid>
		<description>Warhammer&#039;s out look on its own game is just going in circles they use band aids to fix something that needs major surgery.

The CC is out of control but who cares about that lets talk about. Why should i play the game ? Were is the fun in it for me after tier 3 ?

You get into the end game and you are doing exactly what you started doing since the game launched. Take a keep tag your it then they take it back.

Keep tag that is basically it, is that FUN ?  Hell NO! its a waste of time..

I play my azz off for a week to take zones to get a shot at a fortress what do i get...? 2 hours take a fortress what a fcking joke!

Open RVR? Keep sieges? Redundent as Hell! Same shit everyday I can get that in real life why do i need to pay for it?

I am really upset at this game and how much hype they put into it.. I dragged my entire guild to this game just for all to quit it in 3 months after playing..

80 people complaining to me about the lack of Fun this game was.. Scenerios ruined this game.. Public Quests yea right you and maybe one other Person.. 

There is not enough people on these servers to have any epic battles, and when you do start seeing some actions its the same 80 people over and over..

You want to make this game successful... Give me DAOC with these graphics.. Give me Relics and powers for taking those relics.. Give me Battle grounds that are instanced with a Big keep to fight over...  How hard is this to do .. GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT ... DAOC PERIOD..

YOU BUILD IT LIKE DAOC AND THEY WILL COME.. AND COME BACK TO WARHAMMER!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Warhammer&#8217;s out look on its own game is just going in circles they use band aids to fix something that needs major surgery.</p>
<p>The CC is out of control but who cares about that lets talk about. Why should i play the game ? Were is the fun in it for me after tier 3 ?</p>
<p>You get into the end game and you are doing exactly what you started doing since the game launched. Take a keep tag your it then they take it back.</p>
<p>Keep tag that is basically it, is that FUN ?  Hell NO! its a waste of time..</p>
<p>I play my azz off for a week to take zones to get a shot at a fortress what do i get&#8230;? 2 hours take a fortress what a fcking joke!</p>
<p>Open RVR? Keep sieges? Redundent as Hell! Same shit everyday I can get that in real life why do i need to pay for it?</p>
<p>I am really upset at this game and how much hype they put into it.. I dragged my entire guild to this game just for all to quit it in 3 months after playing..</p>
<p>80 people complaining to me about the lack of Fun this game was.. Scenerios ruined this game.. Public Quests yea right you and maybe one other Person.. </p>
<p>There is not enough people on these servers to have any epic battles, and when you do start seeing some actions its the same 80 people over and over..</p>
<p>You want to make this game successful&#8230; Give me DAOC with these graphics.. Give me Relics and powers for taking those relics.. Give me Battle grounds that are instanced with a Big keep to fight over&#8230;  How hard is this to do .. GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT &#8230; DAOC PERIOD..</p>
<p>YOU BUILD IT LIKE DAOC AND THEY WILL COME.. AND COME BACK TO WARHAMMER!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Coppertopper</title>
		<link>http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/comment-page-1/#comment-18535</link>
		<dc:creator>Coppertopper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 22:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/#comment-18535</guid>
		<description>So am I the only one who feels this game would be done if Mythic just dropped the classes and combat mechanics into DAoC? It seems like everything missing from WAR exists in DAoC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So am I the only one who feels this game would be done if Mythic just dropped the classes and combat mechanics into DAoC? It seems like everything missing from WAR exists in DAoC.</p>
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		<title>By: janet</title>
		<link>http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/comment-page-1/#comment-18384</link>
		<dc:creator>janet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jan 2009 17:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/#comment-18384</guid>
		<description>yep, it&#039;s pretty much dead, in the can, done.  OVER.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yep, it&#8217;s pretty much dead, in the can, done.  OVER.</p>
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		<title>By: Paragus</title>
		<link>http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/comment-page-1/#comment-18081</link>
		<dc:creator>Paragus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 03:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/#comment-18081</guid>
		<description>Dread, the only one foaming at the mouth are people who refuse to be objective about the game.   I give Mythic a lot of credit my articles where it is due, I welcome you to go back and read them.  My opinion is just that, an opinion.   We can agree to disagree and that&#039;s fine, but instead of name calling, you should try to speak to the points I bring up because they are valid and I think you know it.

Back to the issue at hand, here is what I truly think will need to happen for Mythic to turn this thing around.   The realm awards need to be completely gone over and changed from trivial passive abilities to something desirable.   

Mythic will need to do a &quot;New Frontier&quot; like they did with DAOC.   this will be a complete redesign of their forts instead of the copy and paste job they are using now.  

The crowd control needs to be slashed drastically, currently there 177 unique class abilities in the game that crowd control people in Tier 4.

The PvE component and public quests needs to be completely removed from the zone locking mechanism and has to be completely rethought out from top to bottom.

Scenarios should have little to no value in the zone control mechanic, and the renown gained in them needs to be reduced or eliminated.

I welcome you or any of the other WAR fanatics to challenge me on any of these points.    I have experienced far more in this game than most people have, and I have watched the top guilds on the most populated server dissolve away into nothing.  Warhammer needs people to be successful, and flaming critics of the game is only going to make the WAR community look like the retarded stepchild of WoW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dread, the only one foaming at the mouth are people who refuse to be objective about the game.   I give Mythic a lot of credit my articles where it is due, I welcome you to go back and read them.  My opinion is just that, an opinion.   We can agree to disagree and that&#8217;s fine, but instead of name calling, you should try to speak to the points I bring up because they are valid and I think you know it.</p>
<p>Back to the issue at hand, here is what I truly think will need to happen for Mythic to turn this thing around.   The realm awards need to be completely gone over and changed from trivial passive abilities to something desirable.   </p>
<p>Mythic will need to do a &#8220;New Frontier&#8221; like they did with DAOC.   this will be a complete redesign of their forts instead of the copy and paste job they are using now.  </p>
<p>The crowd control needs to be slashed drastically, currently there 177 unique class abilities in the game that crowd control people in Tier 4.</p>
<p>The PvE component and public quests needs to be completely removed from the zone locking mechanism and has to be completely rethought out from top to bottom.</p>
<p>Scenarios should have little to no value in the zone control mechanic, and the renown gained in them needs to be reduced or eliminated.</p>
<p>I welcome you or any of the other WAR fanatics to challenge me on any of these points.    I have experienced far more in this game than most people have, and I have watched the top guilds on the most populated server dissolve away into nothing.  Warhammer needs people to be successful, and flaming critics of the game is only going to make the WAR community look like the retarded stepchild of WoW.</p>
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		<title>By: Naedre</title>
		<link>http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/comment-page-1/#comment-18064</link>
		<dc:creator>Naedre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 00:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/#comment-18064</guid>
		<description>Well, I canceled because in part of the reasons you mention and the overall feel of WAR. There is no community. I think that looting a Keep Lord shows how the Marketing is in charge of the game design.

We didn&#039;t want gear grinding, we wanted RVR. Give us relics! Give us active RVR abilities like someone commented before. That will get people to show up. I know I did back in the DAoC days. Now Darkness Falls was a gear grind, but the fun was clearing it out when you got it.

If they focused on community RVR, not gear grinding. If they bite the bullet and merge more servers. I might consider.

But WAR was released too early and I&#039;m tired of being a paying test subject maybe they can pull it together in the coming months. Too early? still missing classes, no meaningful crafting or economy, etc...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I canceled because in part of the reasons you mention and the overall feel of WAR. There is no community. I think that looting a Keep Lord shows how the Marketing is in charge of the game design.</p>
<p>We didn&#8217;t want gear grinding, we wanted RVR. Give us relics! Give us active RVR abilities like someone commented before. That will get people to show up. I know I did back in the DAoC days. Now Darkness Falls was a gear grind, but the fun was clearing it out when you got it.</p>
<p>If they focused on community RVR, not gear grinding. If they bite the bullet and merge more servers. I might consider.</p>
<p>But WAR was released too early and I&#8217;m tired of being a paying test subject maybe they can pull it together in the coming months. Too early? still missing classes, no meaningful crafting or economy, etc&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Grimjakk</title>
		<link>http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/comment-page-1/#comment-18057</link>
		<dc:creator>Grimjakk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:07:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/#comment-18057</guid>
		<description>Now, you complained about getting rolled on defense AND about the chokepoints being impassible when defended.   You&#039;ll have to pardon me if my first thought was that you just might not have a solid understanding of that whole &quot;defending the keep&quot; thing... ;)

Design can anticipate player behaviour and influence player behaviour  but it can&#039;t enforce player behaviour.  Players will always prefer to attack.  It&#039;s more dynamic, and it&#039;s on the player&#039;s schedule.  The best your design is going to do is make it possible for that small warband to hold against the larger number of attackers, and give them a hefty enough reward that they feel it was a worthwhile effort.  

As to the comment on city siege not being implemented... I think that&#039;s just not true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now, you complained about getting rolled on defense AND about the chokepoints being impassible when defended.   You&#8217;ll have to pardon me if my first thought was that you just might not have a solid understanding of that whole &#8220;defending the keep&#8221; thing&#8230; <img src='http://www.mmocrunch.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Design can anticipate player behaviour and influence player behaviour  but it can&#8217;t enforce player behaviour.  Players will always prefer to attack.  It&#8217;s more dynamic, and it&#8217;s on the player&#8217;s schedule.  The best your design is going to do is make it possible for that small warband to hold against the larger number of attackers, and give them a hefty enough reward that they feel it was a worthwhile effort.  </p>
<p>As to the comment on city siege not being implemented&#8230; I think that&#8217;s just not true.</p>
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		<title>By: Antwon</title>
		<link>http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/comment-page-1/#comment-18056</link>
		<dc:creator>Antwon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 22:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mmocrunch.com/2009/01/12/warhammer-online-does-rvr-need-an-overhaul/#comment-18056</guid>
		<description>When it comes to end game in WAR it is simply not fun. They need to do some major overhauling to fix the issues. I gave AoC their chance to show me PvP and they failed. Then I gave WAR a chance to show me some true PvP, and they give me instances. It&#039;s time to move on to Darkfall, they checked the hardware on their servers and they can handle massive amounts of people. Good luck WAR people I hope Paul Barnett keeps you hypnotized with his bullshit for awhile!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When it comes to end game in WAR it is simply not fun. They need to do some major overhauling to fix the issues. I gave AoC their chance to show me PvP and they failed. Then I gave WAR a chance to show me some true PvP, and they give me instances. It&#8217;s time to move on to Darkfall, they checked the hardware on their servers and they can handle massive amounts of people. Good luck WAR people I hope Paul Barnett keeps you hypnotized with his bullshit for awhile!</p>
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