Comments on: Story: Thought or Afterthought?

By: Callan S.

Callan S. — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:09:08 +0000

Thanks and thanks for engaging in thoughtful discussion

By: Inktomi

Inktomi — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:35:45 +0000

So a passive story would be the afterthought here, not engaging. That would be more active storytelling. yes, it was a great convo Callan. Stop by anytime.
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By: Callan S.

Callan S. — Fri, 13 Nov 2009 02:05:00 +0000

That’s not what I’m saying. I say they have passive story. It’s like play consists of fight a battle, so you can turn to the next page of a book. Just because your interactive during the battle doesn’t mean when you watch the next cut scene, your any more interactive than when you read a normal book.
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I mean, when I say this, I assume you want to make your own story when you play, not just passively experience someone elses story. If you don’t, then I’m missplaced in presenting my arguement here, sorry ’bout that – hope it was an interesting read anyway

By: Inktomi

Inktomi — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 05:29:46 +0000

2 Death1942: sorry, I was under an impression that everyone played it since it was released in 2006 and one of the best rpg’s ever created. It’s time to get involved! It’s cheap and two…err…1 expansion and a few dlc’s deep. I agree, but Borderlands is more like the shooter tagged with the new phrase, “with rpg elements”. I enjoy a happy medium too, depends on what genre I’m in the mood for.
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2 Callan: see, I fell for it. I am a sucker for a good story. And don’t mind a good debate. You still haven’t given a good reason why these new MMO’s skimp on story.
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Example: Lord of the rings? Tons of battles, good story. Such a good story that it has started a list of major motion pictures and expanded an already massive following. But those battles mattered, even in the online game the story held up. They even give you certain incentives to play the storyline quests for items and rewards.

By: Callan S.

Callan S. — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:29:46 +0000

Sorry, just to clarify on the paraplegic thing, that’s just an example – it’s not my own personal history, lol!!! I said it to compare how movies and books have you static and unable to do anything/make you a paraplegic, compared to a video game which allows some interaction by fighting between each turn of the storys pages. But it’s not much better than dragging oneself along the ground, even if it’s tons better than being frozen in place.
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Also, people dress up as Mario too. Look, if you find story in killing eight goblins then watching a cut scene, okay. It’s just that the average fantasy novel does better story than that by far.
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Tell me the name of some movies or books you like and I’ll point out how either they don’t use killing eight goblins at all as part of story, or how if there is killing of gobo’s or suchlike, it’s like 3% of the movies overall content. The stories you like – they don’t have little combats over and over and over, I bet.

By: Death1942

Death1942 — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:50:11 +0000

oh great awesome, thanks for ruining Oblivion for me.

As for story, It should always take 2nd place to gameplay (as that is how the story is both conveyed and how we enjoy the game) but it should never be as poor as Borderlands and it doesn’t need to be as strong as Dragon Age, A happy medium is acceptable and often fun.

By: Rob P

Rob P — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 17:00:59 +0000

Dragon Age does a good job at telling a story and still keeping character developer very customizable. The latter is something rpgs as a whole (mmos and single player games) have been missing.

By: Inktomi

Inktomi — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 09:45:13 +0000

Callan,
That phrase has helped me cut many a red wire and not the green. I believe in net neutrality, which I learned the hard way. It makes me more a reliable and credible writer.
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I understand how you might think the early FF titles are play to win. The natural urge to complete a project or finish a game is what drives us through the story. Propelled by our own desire to achieve that ultimate goal of (insert macguffin here) killing the (insert villain here) to save the (insert city/state/princess here). We spend hours sometimes literally dragging ourselves through a story. You get the point.
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But if you go to one of these conventions and you see someone dressed as Cloud or sephiroth is that still play to win mentality? Hardly, because they are not playing the game. They are acting out the part of their favorite character in (gasp) a stooorrryyyyyyy.
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I am glad to hear that you have recovered from being paraplegic. I would definitely say that is a win, congratulations. But I would very much like to hear your story of how you did it.
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Stories are simply descriptions of a sequence of events. I’d like to do the Walmart story here, but I don’t think it’s ‘ardcore mmorpg enough. I’ll try though to prove a point.

By: Callan S.

Callan S. — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:30:57 +0000

Eh, I hate the phrase agree to disagree. We already disagree – it doesn’t take us agreeing that is the case, for that to be the case. Agreeing not to jump on each other because we disagree, that I get but I’d normally assume is the default sort of understanding between people (but I’ll grant on the net that default tends to disappear and bears repeating).

Tell me more on your motivations and feelings about going to walmart, and you’ll find that it’s hard to keep thinking of it in terms of just being “natural story”. Or more precisely, you’ll find that apparently simple natural story actually has a complex underbed of morality and feelings. That’s something the movie clerks demonstrated.

If you want to call play to win stories the first and foremost type of story, okay. It can be. But I think you’d probably enjoy a game based on moral story as well. Your just not getting much opportunity to find out you’d enjoy that.

“Do you really think that Final Fantasy became the franchise they currently are on just play-to-win mechanics?”
Yes.

All there were once were passive movie and books. Then people got to fight little fights in between each page of a video game story. It was far more interaction than ever before!! Awesome!

Except I’d describe it as, having once been a paraplegic, suddenly being able to drag ones self slowly and painfully across the ground with one arm. Sure, tons better than being frozen in place. But it’s hardly the pinacle of ‘walking’.

By: Inktomi

Inktomi — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:17:27 +0000

2 Callan: I guess we agree to disagree on this one. My standpoint of “natural” story-weaving holds true. A trip to Wal-mart can be an adventure if you take in the surroundings, the set, bit players with you as the hero. Play to win? Achievement stories can be found on many blogs around the net. Read a few. “The day I hit level 80″ or “That time I escaped podding by pirates” are just to name a few good ones I read. I feel that todays mmo’s can learn from older games the aspect of storytelling. Do you really think that Final Fantasy became the franchise they currently are on just play-to-win mechanics?
That’s my story and I am sticking to it. Welcome to the site, constructive criticism is always welcome.
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