Comments on: Risk of What Exactly? (or how WoW is like penny poker)

By: Browser Games

Browser Games — Mon, 26 Jul 2010 14:53:19 +0000

I agree with you about 90%. If you are a level 10 character and manage to complete a level 15 quest, and then you realize the item has a higher level requirement and can’t be used, doesn’t necessary mean you get nothing out of the encounter. You forgot about the XP (experience).

Fighting a monster five levels above your character is considered a “risk” for me because my character could end up dead. I get experience out of it and a weapon I cannot yet use, but I can sell. Though I do agree with you 100% that risk is relative as you progress through areas.

By: DrRumpy

DrRumpy — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:38:29 +0000

Spectacular article. Good job.

By: Callan S.

Callan S. — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:42:36 +0000

No, not a huge risk. It’s just the impression of a huge risk – what info do you have to prove it’s a risk?

For example, say someones in front of me, flips a coin and it’s my call, heads. They hand me hundreds of game coins and I go weee! Also I don’t lose my game coins.

Now imagine someone goes off into a black box, then comes back out and hands me a few hundred game coins?

Did I face a big risk? Did they flip a coin while they were in that black box? Or did they just decide to hand out game coins to me?

Should I go weeee! or would I just be fooling myself?

Without transparent risks or atleast some level of transparency, you don’t know.

By: Inktomi

Inktomi — Sun, 17 Jan 2010 19:39:54 +0000

Unfortunately Hulkageddon 1 and 2 has made safe mining impossible even in empire space. Since Apocrypha and the introduction of wormhole space, you can get that 0.0 feel and profitablility without venturing past gatecamps getting to null or lowsec. They even have wormholes that lead to 0.0 and that enables the term: Stealth mining. But that requires a few hulks and an orca. HUGE RISK! But tremendous reward if you pull it off.
But EVE is not for everyone, but gets the risk/reward ratio right.

By: Callan S.

Callan S. — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 21:18:54 +0000

As far as I’m aware, in terms of risk Eve suffers or fails in that in more dangerous space you have no idea of the risk (you have some idea in poker, for example) since people who will kill you aren’t regulated in any way. Is it thrilling when there was a zero change of being ganked, cause all the local gankers were on bio break?
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Well I guess that raises the question that if you don’t know you couldn’t die, but you felt as if you could and that was exciting, whether it the truth of the situation or the feeling of the situation that matters. Personally I’d go with the truth.
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Second is that as far as I understand it, it’s risking $100 to gain $1. For example, in more dangerous space, will one instance of mining pay twice the value of your ship and it’s mods/your guys mods? I’m thinking no, it’ll only pay a fraction.
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In poker you don’t risk $100 to gain $1. You usually risk a certain amount to win multiple times that amount.
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I think even if you like risking $100 to gain $1, it’ll make you risk adverse and when you do lose, it’ll really, really suck. Atleast in poker you can say “Well, I lost $10 but I could have won $100!” while here it’s “Well, I lost $100 but I could have won $1…AH CRAP!”

By: cmagoun

cmagoun — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 20:44:06 +0000

Callan: I think Eve is a fairly good example of a risky game. You can certainly mine in safe space and make money, but the good stuff is in 0.0 sec. You increase your risk by going to 0.0 and you up your reward. Eve gets it right… and does one better by offering the risk-averse a place to game as well.
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Eve is my favorite game I can’t stand to play.

By: cmagoun

cmagoun — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 20:41:39 +0000

Xan: Yeah, I get it… you want essentially the single player style game with infinite continues. That’s fine. Lots of folks like that style game and it’s the dominant MMO paradigm right now.
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But there’s no risk. Challenge != Risk. Dying over and over and respawning until you figure out how to kill a boss might be challenging, but it isn’t risky unless you can lose something by failing. You don’t seem to enjoy risk. Some people do which is why games like Eve and Darkfall exist.
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Perhaps most MMO devs ought to stop talking about risk v. reward and start talking about challenge v. reward.

By: Inktomi

Inktomi — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 08:11:50 +0000

2 Callan (because I don’t speak @ people)
To make money you can do: missioning, mining, crafting, trading (my forte), ratting and wormhole excavation (what I was currently doing before my l-EVE of absence).
These are all methods of making money in EVE that work really well. EVE has the best player driven economy IMO and I am currently sitting on 2 fleets of ships and 1 billion in cash, no sorry, a little less because I fitted another ship.
Now if I take that new ship to low-sec, zero or a W-hole I stand the chance of getting blown to bits and lose all that money I invested. Thats my risk. My reward is…well whatever I went int here for.

By: Xan

Xan — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 06:51:45 +0000

@ Callan S,

Actualy they can, it’s called being human and using your brain.

And the type of risk I like is challenge, eg. don’t make too many easy mobs, add some harder ones that will kill you and force you to respawn over and over until you figured out how to properly kill them and maybe wih a bit of luck.

Group quests, etc.

By: Callan S.

Callan S. — Sat, 16 Jan 2010 02:00:45 +0000

I don’t think eve’s model works out though – how did you get all that money? If it’s from mining or ratting, it’s pretty much gained at no risk.

It’s a matter of having to do a bunch of no risk stuff before you get to any risk.