Comments on: Challenge and Risk

By: Ananda

Ananda — Thu, 21 Jan 2010 02:03:10 +0000

Really?

If this is a common understanding of the word “challenge” among game designers, it would explain why there is such a lack of it.

To me, both of the notions you mentioned fall under the “risk” category, while “challenge” is the extent to which you need to bring all your skills and mental faculties to bear on a problem. An enemy that randomly one-shots you is risky, but doesn’t necessarily pose a challenge. On the other hand a dungeon that requires you to find the right path and tactics for getting past a group of individually weak enemies or traps might be challenging without being all that risky.

Just saying there’s far more to “challenge” than you are suggesting here.

By: Randomessa

Randomessa — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 16:36:57 +0000

@cmagoun, I don’t dispute your perspective in general, I simply wish to clarify that from my perspective, the risk IS the loss of my time, not that my time is valuable and therefore I do not want any risk.

I certainly wish for more games along your tastes to be made available because the more options everyone has, the better. I started gaming with MUDs in the 90s and there were simply so many that it was trivial to find something that catered to your preferences exactly. Would that MMOs were like that instead of chasing 10+ million subscribers to the same single game!

By: cmagoun

cmagoun — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 13:25:14 +0000

Randomessa: I don’t think the “My time is valuable” argument works. My time is pretty darn valuable as well, which is why I want to have fun when I spend it and to me, a game that involves risk is more fun than a game which offers none.
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But I get it. When you spend your time, you want to feel as though you have “progressed” and thus a game with significant setbacks is out. My take is that, though I do enjoy those games, I am feeling more and more like the progress they offer is meaningless and unfufilling because of the lack of potential setbacks.
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I think overall, your point of view is a better indicator of the current MMO market, and the video game market in general, than mine is. I’m ok with that. However, as I stated in the last post, I maintain that in sanitizing our games of true risk, we lose a powerful design element and our games are a little less for it.

By: Randomessa

Randomessa — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 07:58:40 +0000

@Callan S: ….I don’t? I was making the point that I would not play such a game and wouldn’t appreciate additional death penalties (“risk”) added to the games I do play, and explaining why I felt that way.

By: Inktomi

Inktomi — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 05:28:49 +0000

Darn good article cmag! I agree 100%

By: Callan S.

Callan S. — Tue, 19 Jan 2010 00:37:30 +0000

Randomessa,

Then why are you participating in an activity that has something in it you don’t appreciate (at all, seemingly)? Completely hooked?

By: Randomessa

Randomessa — Mon, 18 Jan 2010 21:49:01 +0000

I offer a third aspect to the risk equation: that of lost time. Having to repeat an encounter due to a wipe costs me time, which is valuable to me. Loss of gold, items, or xp are additional time debts on top of that.

I’m not big on acquiring gear myself, but then I am also not a fan of feeling forced to repeat an event, even if the event is initially fun. Therefore, feeling compelled to repeat an encounter because I have failed to defeat it (barring the opportunity to improve my strategy) also has a cost of fun.

I do not like imposed death penalties or other forms or risk because I do not appreciate the game’s developers telling me what I ought to find more valuable than my time.